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ZL3AI > APRDIG 26.10.06 07:05l 271 Lines 8943 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
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Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 28 #10, 2/4
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From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#87.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:06:14 -0500
From: Gregg Wonderly <gregg_at_wonderly.org>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] 9600b UHF APRS IS THE FUTURE OF APRS
Bob Bruninga wrote:
>>>It's not the coverage that's the problem, it's the
>>>number of users in the collision domain and the
>>>size of the aloha circle vs. digipeater location...
>>
>>Don't forget "packet time" is also part of the equation.
>>A 9600 baud network with packets 1/4 the size of a 1200
>>baud network can handle 4X the number of users in its
>>Aloha circle.
>
>
>BUT, in order to make 9600 baud work at UHF, you first have
>to make up a 9 dB RF link penalty, and a few dB decoding penalty.
>This requires you to have to install 4 times as many digipeaters
>for the SAME performance.
The distance to the digi is smaller, so that 9db loss, is not such a
dramatic situation, and antennas can make it a non-issue.
>Now, once you have installed 4 TIMES the number of digis, you now
>have much smaller CELLS and can stuff in 16 times as many users.
4 times the equipment for 16 times the bandwidth? We must be crazy to want
that kind of upgrade huh? Have a look at our UHF linked system at
http://www.w5ias.com/status. It covers have a state for reasonable voice
services from HTs. We don't try and fill all the low areas in the far east
and SE of OK, but, from the hill tops, you can work the system. I think
that people just need to go try it to see whether the numbers all fall in
line, or if there are certain system characteristics that change things.
Maintaining the current expectations for the use of APRS, is going to cause
it to be pushed asside by other technologies with more bandwidth and better
characteristics. D-Star, Celluar, WI-FI/WI-MAX (standardization at a
massive scale), all provide a lot more bang for the buck. It's either time
to start working on the next generation, or time to take the idle path of
waiting to be overrun, and then dump everything and start over.
Gregg Wonderly
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:10:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: [aprssig] Mic-E STATUS refresh and bad software?
>Baud rate is NOT the primary limiting factor...
>... if we could just get everyone to set a
>reasonable txdelay and stop using long comments
>on every packet. I see way too many short
>Mic-E packets with a 30-character comment
>tacked on to every position report!
Yes, that is why we had the STATUS rate settable to say only include the
STATUS in every 5th packet or something. But here is the problem (I
think)...
SOME software will ELIMINATE a STATUS if the next posit comes in without
it. It is not captured and RETAINED like it is supposed to be. I am
sometimes hesitant to set my STATUS rate to seomehing link only 1 in five,
because I am not sure if it will be captured.
Lets do some experimentation and identify the bad apples:
1) FINDU does not even capture STAUTS, so that is a biggie!
2) What do the other softwares do?
Here is the TEST:
1) SEND a Kenwood POSIT with STATUS.
2) Then send a few WITHOUT STATUS and no more.
Check your software and see if the STATUS remains associated and always
visibile with the LAST position report received.
If it doesn't, then lets identiifes these problems and get them fixed.
Then we can campaign for everyone to cut down on their STATUS refresh rate.
de WB4APR, Bob
FINDU does not a Not to mention D700's with half-second txdelays...
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 11:11:19 -0700
From: <scott_at_opentrac.org>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] Mic-E STATUS refresh and bad software?
>Lets do some experimentation and identify the bad apples:
>1) FINDU does not even capture STAUTS, so that is a biggie!
>2) What do the other softwares do?
It does, at least for the mapping display - not for WX. See
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?n1vg-2 and
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?n1vg-2 for comparison. I think the
status is sent every 5th packet or so on that station.
Scott
N1VG
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 19:02:34 +0000
From: "Rich Walrath" <rich_wal_at_rwpservice.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] ARISS
I've been wondering the same thing... have my rig set up in my classroom to
test prior to the unit where I use ARISS, and haven't heard a peep in
weeks. I had been wondering if my rig were damaged, but seeing the listing
last week convinced me it wasn't my end.
73
N0PQB in Guam
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:06:40 -0400
From: "A.J. Farmer (AJ3U)" <farmer.aj_at_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] ARISS
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: John Mc Hugh [mailto:johnk.mchugh_at_att.net]
>>Did I miss a posting?
>>What has happened to ARISS?
>>Looking at the web page the last stations to contact it were 40 days ago
This website is probably the best resource for ARISS radio status:
http://www.issfanclub.com/
--
A.J. Farmer, AJ3U
http://www.aj3u.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:19:26 -0700
From: <scott_at_opentrac.org>
Subject: [aprssig] List of APRS web services
I don't think I've ever seen a comprehensive list of websites that provide
web-based APRS services, so I've started one on the Wiki:
http://info.aprs.net/wikka.php?wakka=WebServices
If there's a good list somewhere, let me know and I'll incorporate that.
Otherwise, either add it to the Wiki or mail it to me and I'll update the
list.
Scott
N1VG
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:27:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] ARISS
>I've been wondering the same thing... have my rig
>set up in my classroom to test prior to the [class]
>where I use ARISS, and haven't heard a peep in weeks.
For what it is worth, PCSAT-1 is currently operational and will hopefully
remain so for a few weeks. It was recovered on 26 Sept and sometimes we
have been able to keep her going for up to a month until a fluke reset.
It is a good 145.825 packet digipeater just like the ARISS system was. But
it runs only 2 watts instead of the ISS 25W.
de WB4APR, Bob.
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:27:54 -0700
From: "Stephen H. Smith" <wa8lmf2_at_aol.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] List of APRS web services
scott_at_opentrac.org wrote:
>I don't think I've ever seen a comprehensive list of websites that provide
>web-based APRS services, so I've started one on the Wiki:
>
>http://info.aprs.net/wikka.php?wakka=WebServices
>
>If there's a good list somewhere, let me know and I'll incorporate that.
>Otherwise, either add it to the Wiki or mail it to me and I'll update the
>list.
>
>Scott
>N1VG
What is the significance of the superscripted infinity symbol
immediately after each URL on the page? [Viewing in FireFox 1.5.0.7]
--
Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com
EchoLink Node: 14400 [Think bottom of the 2M band]
Home Page: http://wa8lmf.com
NEW! JavAPRS Filter Port 14580 Guide
http://webs.lanset.com/wa8lmf/aprs/JAVaprsFilters.htm
UI-View Misc Notes and FAQ
http://webs.lanset.com/wa8lmf/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm
"APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating
http://webs.lanset.com/wa8lmf/DigiPaths
Updated "Rev G" APRS http://webs.lanset.com/wa8lmf/aprs
Symbols Set for UI-View,
UIpoint and APRSplus:
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:37:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Bob Bruninga " <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] Mic-E STATUS refresh and bad software?
>Lets do some experimentation and identify the [status problems]:
>1) FINDU does not even capture STATUS, so that is a biggie!
>2) What do the other softwares do?
>It does, at least for the mapping display - not for WX.
>See http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?n1vg-2 and
Scott,
Are you talking about the raw packet display at the top of the screen?
Yes, it does display the RAW packet, but it does not parse out and save the
STATUS portion. So if the next raw packet comes in without a STATUS (to
save bandwidth) then FINDU has no copy of the previous STATUS.
I could be wrong, but that is the way it used to be...
My understanding was that FINDU does not even parse nor retain STATUS.
Since STATUS is one of only 3 fundamental APRS packet types, I always
thought that was a big shortcoming.
de Wb4APR, Bob
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:46:27 -0700
From: <scott_at_opentrac.org>
Subject: RE: [aprssig] List of APRS web services
>What is the significance of the superscripted infinity symbol
>immediately after each URL on the page? [Viewing in FireFox 1.5.0.7]
I think that just means that it's a link to another site, and not a link
within the Wiki.
Scott
N1VG
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