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ZL3AI > APRDIG 19.07.06 01:09l 447 Lines 12280 Bytes #999 (0) @ WW
BID : 8405-ZL3AI
Read: GUEST
Subj: [APRSSIG] Vol 25 #16, 1/2
Path: DB0FHN<DB0RGB<DB0MRW<DK0WUE<7M3TJZ<ON0AR<ZL2BAU
Sent: 060718/2246Z @:ZL2BAU.#87.NZL.OC #:59402 [Waimate] $:8405-ZL3AI
From: ZL3AI@ZL2BAU.#87.NZL.OC
To : APRDIG@WW
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (Robert Bruninga)
2. Re: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (Jason Winningham)
3. Re: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (Tim Cunningham)
4. Delayed packets (Mark Conner)
5. Re: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (BH)
6. Re: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (w0ep)
7. Re: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (BH)
8. Re: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (Robert Bruninga)
9. RE: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (john b. leonard, jr.)
10. RE: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (john b. leonard, jr.)
11. RE: Re: Unreasonable xmission delay (Robert Bruninga)
12. Re: Unreasonable xmission delay = big white elephant in the room
(Jeff Thomas - KD4EVB)
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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:12:26 -0400
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga_at_usna.edu>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Re: Unreasonable xmission delay
>>Can anyone shed light on what can be done to eliminate 5 minutes of
>>delay for 100 miles of 3 hops.
>
>All of these digis should be setting DWAIT=0 so that they
>don't wait for clear air before transmitting.
Gregg,
yes, so true. There was a lot of bad data out there on setting up digis in
the 1990's and early 2000's that monkied around with Dwait. Yes, it has
always been supposed to be Dwait=0. And any setting other than 0 just slows
down the network trmendously.
Just to clarify, DWait causes the DIGI to key up before any other USERS'
TNC once the channel clears, but the TNC will still hold off if the channel
is busy already. DWait only comes into play when the channel clears.
So if the channel is busy wall-to-wall, and the TNC is set for "channel
busy" DCD instead of true data-DCD, then the DIGI could hold off for
minutes at a time in some high locations..
I still think this is a cause of some of the long delayed data into
FINDU... But that is just a hunch...
Bob, WB4APR
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:17:19 -0500
From: Jason Winningham <jdw_at_eng.uah.edu>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Re: Unreasonable xmission delay
On Jul 15, 2006, at 10:00 AM, Tim Cunningham wrote:
>There is clearly a problem and it appears to happen somewhere
>between the IGates and how the data makes it to FINDU.
I'm also in north Alabama. FWIW, a few weeks ago I noticed my mobile
jumping around due to some late packets. this was observed on an Internet
feed; FindU was not involved.
not sure if it's the same issue, but it's a data point.
-Jason
kg4wsv
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:52:19 -0500
From: "Tim Cunningham" <tim_cunningham_at_mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Re: Unreasonable xmission delay
Jason, this is the same issue. Obviously, something has changed on the
internet feed or we are just now starting to see a problem that was always
there and the proliferation of IGates is simply amplifying an existing
issue
Tim - N8DEU
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 15:58:06 -0500
From: "Mark Conner" <mconner1_at_gmail.com>
Subject: [aprssig] Delayed packets
If you look in the APRSSIG archives for early last month, you'll see a
discussion of the same topic.
Initially, my thinking was that UI-View was more prone to this than other
I-Gate software, but the data I gathered does not support that view. It
appears that certain I-Gates "hold" their packets somehow or another before
forwarding them on to the APRS-IS. There is a small chance something odd
is happening on the APRS-IS side, but that's unlikely as it tends to be
very IGate-specific when it happens. If you can contact the I-Gate
operator while it's happening, it'd be interesting to know if the problem
goes away with a software or system restart.
I am working on a Perl script to monitor and log when these delayed packets
happen. Right now the decoder portion does not decode NMEA strings, so I
can only do this for TinyTraks that are transmitting hour-min-sec data in
their position reports.
73 de Mark N9XTN
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 21:04:31 -0700
From: BH <brent.hildebrand_at_gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [aprssig] Re: Unreasonable xmission delay
I did a little analysis of APRS traffic this afternoon looking only at
packets with $GPRMC sentences. Today's analysis looked at all $GPRMC
sentences that I decoded vs the time that the packets were received. GPRMC
includes the timestamp from the GPS, and my computer time is synced with an
Internet time server. Here is the the data showing the callsign of the
IGate, and the time delay for each individual packet rounded to the nearest
second. There are some marked outliers which on further analysis showed
was often do to corrupted packets, see the large numbers in the first
station listed below. This IGate also shows marked delay in time, but then
appears to improve with time. I understand that complete analysis would
require looking at all the path data also. The idea here is to see where
problems points may be located.
N3XKU 304 302 281 272 315 365 326 285 267 274 209 251 255 265 296
331 5 67 74 78 5 3 3 4 4 33928 5 33990 5 34110 5 5 34230
KE2LJ-8 4 11 9 3 3 10 4 2 10 37 5 19 19 3 7 16 10 54 13 6 6 5 2 5 4
4 25 12 80 21 6 11 2 11 24 16 56 3 5 18 17 5 8 24 21 7 101 42 26 163
118 58 20 60 56 9 3 5 4 4
W2KB 4 25 2 3 6 21 4 6
N2ZRC 12 8 4 9 17 162 91 15 1 1 4 1 2 2 2 3
N2VFK 52 4
VE7GDH 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 3 2 1 1
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1
1 0 0 1 0 1 1 2 2 1 3 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1
1 2 1 1 1 4 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 2 3 3 1 2 1 1 2 3 2 2 1 3 2 1 1
1 1 3 1 3 2 3 2 2 3
KD7NM 249 135 8 1 2 3 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 3 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1
KD7NM* 610 493 141 222 48 85 228 170 54 195 243 195 138 80 196 138
249 191 166 108 167 51 158 100 150 88 118 142 90 121 62 73 70 88
VE7DID-1 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 3 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 1 1 0 0 0 2 2 2 2 2
1 1 1 1 1 3 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1
1 1 2 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 2 5 1 2 1 1 1 4 4 3 9 8 8 9 10 9
VE7DIE 3 6 2 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 5 1 1
5 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 4
N7NEI-12 1 2 9
VA7MOS-13 7 3 21 12 6 3 2 2 5 4 6 15
KE7BBS 136
LW4DEM-1 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3
KD7AN-2 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 1 3 1 2 0 2 1
W0EP-1 4 5 5 4 5 4 6 4 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 5 3 3 3 3 3
2 4 3 2 5 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2
2 2 3 2 4 3 2 3 2 6 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 4
3 3 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 4 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 2 2 2 2 2
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 4 1 1 3 1 1 2 2 2 2
1 2 1 2
KC0LNO-1 5 5 4 2 2 1 1 1
N7XUC-2 5 7 4 4 4 4 5 4 5 6 5 4 5 6 6 4 5 4 4 5 5 5 5 4 5 4 4 5 4 4
4 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 4 4 5 4 4 4 4 5 5 4 5 4 4 4 4 3 5 5 3 5 5 3 3 4 4 3
4 3 4 5 3 3 3 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3
N0PSJ 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 5 4 4 4 5 5 3 3 4 3 3 3 6 4 2 1 1 2 1 1 2
K0ANI 4 3 4 4 3
WB5BBW 4 2 420
K5COD 719 406 357
WB5AOH 3 4
W0WTN-10 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
1 2 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 86399
86399 2 86399
VE2ETS 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4
3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 5 5 3 3 3 3 3 4 6 3 3 3 3 2 3 5 3 6 3 3 3 5 3 5
3 3 3 6 3 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 3 3 4 3 3 2 2 2 4 2 2 4 3 2 3 3 2 2 2 2 4
2 5 2 4 3 2 3 2 4 3 2 3 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 4 5
VE2SIL 7 3 4 3 4 3 3 3 3 5 4 3 5 4 2 5 1 1 5
VE2MGJ 3 4 6 4 3 3 2
VA3DXV 5 2
VE3KFK 4 104 2 3 2 4 4 2 3 4 6 5 4 2 2 2 2 119 5 1 5 1 1 1 1 3 3 3 1
3 5 6 3 3 3 4 1 3 4 3 3 3 5 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 4 4 4 3 6 10 3 5 3 4 3 3 3 3
4 4 5 4 4 5 6 3 3 9 3 4 4 1 2 5 4 4 3 3 3 2 1 25 3 3 3 2 2 1 2 2 6 2 2
1 0 0 4 3 76 2 0 1 1 0 1 74 0 0 2 12 2 2 3 0 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 2 1 2 3
N2NJH-3 3 2 3 3 3 3 2
VA3UV 1 2 2 2 2
KB2ZE-2 4 6 5 5 4
KC2HTV 2 4
KC2YU-1 4
K3JSE 3 2 5 4 2 2 4 2
N2AYK 5 33699 42 34146 2 4
WH6KO 4
TA1DF-2 4 4 4 7 4 4 6 4 7 9 5 4 4 2 4 3 2 7 2 2 2 2 7 2 2 2 2 4 4 2
2 2 2 5 2 2 7 2 4 2 2 2 6 2 2 2 2 2 6 3 3 1
KB6JAG 1 3 1 2 6 4 6 6 6 7 6 2 2 1
KC6JTN 2 3 1 2 1 1 1 2 5 6 6 5 5 7 6 4 6 6 4 4 2 2 2 2 1 1 2 2 2 2 2
2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 2 1 2 1
KC6YRU 2 2 4 1 1 2 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 2 1 3
KD5MSS 2
KB7ZVA-1 3 3 3 6 8 7 6 3 3 3
W9IF 3 5 7 13 6 5 7 6 3 6 3 4 4 5 4 1 3 2 2 6 2 4 4 1 4 3 14 9 16 6
13 12 12 7 8
N1VG-1 3
KG6HSQ-2 2 2 4 2 4 2 8 5 1 3
W9IF-7 2 3 2
AB0XK-8 8 5 7 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 6
K0SUN-14 2 3 3 4
ZL1VFO-10 4 4 3 4 3 6 4 4 4 3 4 3 6 4 3 3 6 5 3 4 4 3 3 6 6 6 7 3 4
3 3 6 3 3 4 4 4 6 6 5 8 4 4 5 3 5 4 7 6 4 4 4 6 4 4 2 4 3 3 3 6 4 7 4
3
ZL1VFO 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 2 2 38 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 5 3 3
25 3 2 2 2 2 2 16 4 2 2 2 4 2 3 4 4 2 2 2 2 4 3 1 4 2 2 2 3 3 2 4 1 2
2 1 2 4 3 4 4 4 3 3 4 3 3 3 4 3 6 3 3 4 3 2 4 4 2 2 2 2 4 3 3 3 1 2 3
2 3 4 1 2 2 2 3 1 2 2 3 3
KB7KFC-1 4 3 3 3 2 3 4 4 3 2 3 3 4 2 3 3 3 8 3 3 2 4 2 2 3 3 6 4 7 4
7 5 5 4 4 4 4 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 3 3 4
KV4OA 7 1714 4 0 0 1 1 6 1 0 1 2 8 0 1 2 1 6 2 0 0 2 2 2 1 2 3 0 3 2
2 3 3 1 1 4 2 0 6 1 0 2 6 3 1 2 1 5 0 1 1 0 0 0 2 0 5 12 2 4
KB6TWC-1 3
N3IJW 3 2 3 4 3 3 3 3 5 3 3 5 3 3 2 4 4 2 3 2 3 2 3 0 1 0 0 3 0 5 1
0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 1 3 1 1 3 1 1 5 1 2 3 2 3 1 2 1 2 3
N4TVC 4
N2NWK 3
K5MJE-2 4 4 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 3 4 2 3 4 3 3 6 2 4 2 4 3 3
N6EX-3 181 94 107 104 87 66 97 76 94 71 95 106 93 104 76 55 97 95
114 80 83 86 110 83 94 78 72 117 116 143 146 140 86 104 89 118 108 96
112 107 114 117 61 119 132 158 109 72 110 74 137 67 88 105 120 95 106
80 90 112 81 68 102 77 80 102 80 129 83 84 33359 90 83 85 119 102 116
100 100 86 80 92 76 83 104 82 57 101 90 96
N7WLC 6 6 6 7 9 6 3 1 4 5 5 4 2 4 8
SEA 2 2 1
WB9WLS 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 2
N9UOF-1 3 0 0 2
AB9FX 1 1
K9QAM 3 3 5 3 2 4 2 3
W9ADS 19 7 5 6 14 6
WR9A 10 14 7 6 7 10 11 6 5 12 9 7 9 8 6 5 5 8 8 20 6 4 4 5 2 3
KA9SZW 11 6
KB9YVN 9 5
N9GKE 6
VE9APR 2 2 3 0 2 2
VE3IRI 6 3 8 4 3 3 4 3
KA5J 5 3 5 5 5 5 6 155 5 4 4 4 4 5 4 5 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 6 4 6 4 5 4
4 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 5 5 4 5 3 6 3 5 4 4 5 4 5 4 5 4 4 4 6 3 3 5 4 4 3 4 4
4 5 4 3 4 5 4 4 3 3
VE5BNC-3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 80840 4 2 2 2 2 ý4266 8 2 2 486 2 2 2 3 ý1605
1 2 2 2 2 2 2
N8XHZ-1 3 1 2
W6LMJ 2 2 2 2 4 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 8 0 2942 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
KA3NAM-10 3 2 4 3 3 2 2 2
WD4HDT 5 5 5 4 5 7 4 5 4 5 6 6 5 4 4 8 4 5 3 5 5 4 4 4 5 4 5 5 4 5 5
4 5 4 4 7 5 4 5 6 4 4 4 3 3 4 4 6 5 4 5 4 4 3 4 5 3 8 5 5 5 6 4 5 8 4
5 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 3
KB5VE-1 7 6 5 4
AA5ED-10 5 4
KE4LTT 4
KC5KLM-1 3
0 0 0 0 0 0
WA4DSY 73 5 4 237 4 4 2 4 91 4 4
WW6JC-3 5 7
KA9RXH 4 6 5 4 3 4
N0PBA-2 5 4 7 6 129 2 3 31
KC0GFO 3
W0DP 4 3 3 4 2
KC0QWN-10 47 38 81 71 184 83
W0IBM 4
W5CCL-2 3 3 3
N0AN 43
KI4GYZ 26
K0AEM-1 1
N4BSA 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 3 2 4 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3
2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 3 3 0 0 1 2 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 0
KG4YZY-11 33 17 16 11 8 31 34 14 38 11 13 21 10 19 12 39 31 37 18 38
39 45 24 56 24 15 15 18 23 33 13 9 14 21 8
KB4SYV 3 5 4 6 5 2 4 4 3 5 3 4 4 3 3 6 4 4 4 5 4 3 4 4 4 4 4 3 4 4 4
3 3 4 4 3 4 3 3 4 4 5 4 4 2 1 1 2 2 1 2 2 3 2 2 1 2 1 4 4
WC4PEM-2 3 3 3 4 3 4 4 3 3 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 3 3 4 4 3 3 3 4 4 4 3 5 3 3
3 2 2 3 2
KD4LXB 33 37
N8JE 4 3 3 3 1 1 1
AC0AE 11474
VK4ZE 2 1 753
VK4TEC 1
KD7GIZ-10 2 0
KE7BAP-12 1 1
K7UHP 2 1 1
K7UHP-3 3
K8TIH 5 7
KD8ATU-1 4 11 3
N9ZIP 6
KB9IBW 5
KD8CAO 6
KC9HAX 6
NS8E 6
W9MKS-15 5
KC8YVF 4
K2DLB 33031
N4XI-11 6
N0BKB 3
KB9TKF-5 2
KC0MWM 2 9
WB0WNX 4
W9NNS 303
K0HAM-2 1
AK4KO-3 4
VE6DJJ 2 0 1 1 1
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